blouderback wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:00 pm
So, the catcher is waiting "in the vicinity" of the plate for a throw. The runner is coming into home. The ball sails over the catcher's head at the same time the runner crosses the plate. Or maybe the throw is just a little off target, maybe so much so that the catcher can't catch it. Are you telling me that there's no danger to the catcher or runner, and the catcher should have ample time to get out of the way?
P.S. I'm not talking about a throw that's 10 feet up the 1st base line, as Les suggested. The rule DOES state that the ball needs to "arrive" immediately before, after, or at the same time as the runner. A ball thrown 10' down the 1st base line never "arrives". A ball "in the vicinity" "arrives" at home plate, even though it may not be catchable.
But this is exactly why I did this exercise with you. So we can spell out what uncatchable means. Earlier you said, even a ball sailed way over the catchers head into the parking lot that it should should be called. Now on this post you are saying no.
So now that we have gone full circle, (this was my intention) now the question in this point is valid. Yes, correct. As an umpire I am not there to determine if a ball in the vicinity would have been caught. I could care less at this point. At the point of vicinity...did the runner COMPLETELY hold or surrender. If yes, SAFE. If not, OUT. My safe or out call is NOT dependent on whether or not the ball in the vicinity was or should have been caught. A ball in the vicinity of the play will be considered a playable, live ball...period.
Of course then there is the actual play being made. A catcher has the ball and tags a runner attempting to hold or surrendering before touching the plate, then obviously it's an out on the tag.
But I needed you to really see the clarity of what 'in the vicinity' really meant. And to how I started this, Les' original mention of uncatchable was an exaggerated statement, in the event someone tried to define the rule as you started to. Not to mention, this loop-de-loop we just did is now in writing should someone else decide to define a missile thrown to another county being in the vicinity just because of intent to throw someone out at the plate.
The shenanigans is now in writing and hopefully not argued.