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Men's & Coed League Sub Scenarios / Effects

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sixofdiamonds
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Men's & Coed League Sub Scenarios / Effects

Post by sixofdiamonds » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:28 pm

Edited 04/15/14 to reflect the amended sub-use rule. If only 1 sub is used in the men's league and that sub is not a POTY candidate, a sub-use batting out need not be taken. If only 1 non-eddie sub is used in the coed leagues, a sub-use batting out need not be taken.

Below are a number of different scenarios involving short-handed situations and the use of subs for both men's and coed leagues. If you are strictly a men's league manager, do not venture into the coed league sub scenarios as permanent and irreversible brain damage could result.

Feel free to add to the scenarios. Feel free to ask questions. Scorekeepers are advised to print out a copy and keep it with them when score keeping.

Men's Leagues

Sub Scenario #1: 4 roster/4 subs
EFFECT: 1 batting out for having less than 9 players to be taken in the 9th spot in the line-up. The sub-use batting out is never added to a line-up already taking a batting out for something else. It is imposed if, and only if, no other batting out is imposed. The opposing team is requested to supply a courtesy catcher merely to return the pitched ball to the pitcher. A courtesy catcher is not permitted in post season games.

Sub Scenario #2: 5 roster/3 subs, 6 roster/2 subs, 7 roster/1 sub
EFFECT: Same as in #1.

Sub Scenario #3: 5 roster/4 subs, 6 roster/3 subs, 7 roster/2 subs, 8 roster/1 sub
EFFECT: A sub-use batting out is imposed in the first 3 scenarios (5 roster/4 subs, 6 roster/3 subs, 7 roster/2 subs) because more than 1 sub is being used. 1 batting out is taken in the 10th spot in the line-up. In the case of only 1 non-Player of the Year Candidate sub being used, a batting out need not be taken.

Sub Scenario #4: 8 roster/0 subs
EFFECT: 1 batting out for having less than 9 players, to be taken in the 9th spot in the line-up.

Sub Scenario #5: 9 roster
EFFECT: No penalty.

Sub Scenario #5: 9 roster/1sub
EFFECT: This is not legal. A team cannot use a sub as a 10th player.

Men's League Points of Emphasis

Under no circumstances can a men's league team add more than 4 subs for any one game. A team cannot legally take the field with less than 8 players (including subs). At no time can a team employ the use of more than 1 Player of the Year candidate as a sub for any one game. POTY candidates are listed on the website. As well, POTY candidates know very well who they are. Subs of any kind are prohibited in the post season. In any case, whenever a sub of any kind is used, the team cannot play with more than 9 players.

Coed Leagues
WARNING: Men's league managers are strongly advised to NOT read any further.

Sub Scenario #1: 4 roster eddies/4 subs (not more than 2 may be non-eddies)
EFFECT: 1 batting out for having less than 9 players to be taken in the 9th spot in the line-up. A sub-use batting out is never added to a line-up already taking a batting out for something else. It is imposed if, and only if, no other batting out is taken. The opposing team is requested to supply a courtesy catcher merely to return the pitched ball to pitcher. Courtesy catcher not permitted in post season games.

Sub Scenario #2: 4 roster female eddies/1 roster non-eddie/4 subs (2 eddie, 2 non-eddie)
EFFECT: 1 sub-use batting out will be imposed in the 10th spot in the line-up because more than 1 non-eddie player is added as a sub. If only 1 non-eddie is used as a sub, a batting out need not be taken.

Sub Scenario #3: 3 roster female eddies/5 roster non-eddies/2 subs (1 female eddie, 1 male eddie)
EFFECT: This is not legal. A coed team may add a sub beyond 9 players if, and only if, it is to meet eddie requirements.

Sub Scenario #4: 3 roster female eddies/4 roster non-eddies/2 subs (2 non-eddies
EFFECT: A batting out is to be taken for the missing 4th eddie in the batting line-up. A sub-use batting out is NOT taken here because 1 is already imposed on the missing 4th eddie. If ever there are less than 4 eddies in the field, or less than the required 3 females, the team can play with NOT MORE than 9 in the field and ALL of the eddies must play a position other than catcher.

Sub Scenario #5: 3 roster female eddies/8 roster non-eddies/0 subs
EFFECT:1 batting out for the missing 4th eddie in the line-up. Because the team does not meet eddie requirements, the team can play with NOT MORE than 9 in the field and the 3 eddies must play a position other than catcher. All 11 roster players may bat.

Sub Scenario #6: 3 roster female eddies/8 roster non-eddies/1 sub (male or female eddie)
EFFECT: There is no sub-use batting out as it is not applicable for eddies being added to meet eddie requirements. There is no missing eddie batting out. Coed teams may add to a total of more than 9 in the line-up to meet eddie requirements, but may field not more than 9. All 12 may bat (11 roster, 1 non-roster).

Sub Scenario #7: 2 roster female eddies/3 roster non-eddies/4 subs (2 female and 2 non-eddies)
EFFECT: 1 sub-use batting out is taken for the non-eddie subs. Whenever any kind of sub is used, the team can play with NOT MORE than 9 in the field.

Sub Scenario #8: 2 roster female eddies/3 roster non-eddies/4 subs (2 male eddies, 2 non-eddies)
EFFECT: 1 batting out for the 3rd missing female eddie in the batting line-up. A sub-use batting out is NOT taken here because 1 is already imposed for the 3rd missing female eddie in the batting line-up. The team can play with NOT MORE than 9 in the field and the 4 eddies must play a position other than catcher*.

*In this scenario, the team must field (as other than catcher) the 2 female and 2 male eddies in order to comply with the 4-4-3 rule which states 4 eddies must be in the field at all times. If the team fields only 2 female eddies and 1 male eddie and has the 4th on the bench as a batter only, the team would be in roster default. ROSTER DEFAULT: If while a game is in progress, a team is found to be in default of any roster requirement, the defaulting team must take immediate remedial action and shall start their next inning with 1 out; recorded as a team out not affecting the batting order. A roster default can only apply when the default of the roster requirement was avoidable (as in the aforementioned situation).

Sub Scenario #9: 2 roster female eddies/3 roster non-eddies/4 subs (1 female eddie, 1 male eddie, 2 non-eddies)
EFFECT: 1 sub-use batting out is taken for the non-eddie subs. Whenever any kind of sub is used, the team can play with NOT MORE than 9 in the field.

Sub Scenario #10: 1 roster female eddie/3 roster non-eddies/4 subs (2 female eddies, 1 male eddie, 1 non-eddie)
EFFECT: 1 batting out for less than 9 players. A sub-use batting out is NOT taken here because 1 is already imposed for having less than 9 players. The opposing team is requested to supply a courtesy catcher merely to return the pitched ball to pitcher. Courtesy catcher not permitted in post season games.

Sub Scenario #11: 3 roster female eddies/4 roster non-eddies/2 subs (1 female eddie, 1 male eddie)
EFFECT: 1 sub-use batting out will be imposed for 5th eddie. By the letter of the rule, there is no sub-use batting out when using eddies as subs; however, it is obvious in this instance the eddie is being added to circumvent the sub-use rule and NOT to meet eddie requirements. Therefore, a sub-use batting out will be imposed for any eddie sub that is added over and above eddie requirements. This loophole closure is effective immediately and will be added to the league rules.

Sub Scenario #11a: 3 roster female eddies/1 roster male eddie/4 roster non-eddies/1 sub (male eddie).
EFFECT: 1 sub-use batting out will be imposed for 5th eddie. By the letter of the rule, there is no sub-use batting out when using eddies as subs; however, it is obvious in this instance the eddie is being added to circumvent the sub-use rule and NOT to meet eddie requirements. Therefore, a sub-use batting out will be imposed for any eddie sub that is added over and above eddie requirements. This loophole closure is effective immediately and will be added to the league rules.

Sub Scenario #12: 4 roster female eddies/4 roster male eddie/1 sub (non-eddie). When adding only 1 non-eddie sub, a sub-use batting out need not be taken.

Coed League Points of Emphasis

Under no circumstances can a coed league team add more than 4 subs for any one game. A team cannot legally take the field with less than 8 players or with less than 2 females (including subs). At no time can a coed team employ the use of an all-star as a sub (all-stars are listed on the website). Subs of any kind are prohibited in the post season. Whenever a sub of any kind is used, the coed team can field not more than 9 players (more than 9 may bat, but not more than 9 can take the field). The coed sub-use rule shall not apply to the use of eddie subs unless the eddie sub is added for reasons other than to meet eddie requirements.

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sixofdiamonds
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Re: Men's / Coed League Sub Scenarios / Effects

Post by sixofdiamonds » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:32 pm

A printable copy of the sub scenarios is located here...
http://www.cuttingedgesports.net/misc/sub.scenarios.pdf

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Re: Men's / Coed League Sub Scenarios / Effects

Post by sixofdiamonds » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:51 pm

The sub rules are complicated. They are also a necessary evil. Without rules and regulations governing what short-handed teams can and can't do with their rosters, unscrupulous managers would consistently gain unfair advantages over full roster teams.

Here's a recent question and answer as it relates to playing with 9 in the field when employing the use of subs.
...question:
in terms of using eddie subs, if we use a sub that is already a paid participant in Softball America (but may not necessarily be a member of a Sunday coed league, but may be a member of, say, a Wed. coed team), as opposed to a non-roster sub (say, just an ordinary person off the street), then can we still play w/ 10 in the field? or is 9 no matter what? reason i'm asking is because we need an eddie sub for next Sunday Oct. 10 (we have a double header), and if possible, i'd like to get find a rostered eddie sub if that means we can play w/ 10 in the field.
There are no exceptions to playing with 9 in the field when using any kind of sub. Anytime you use a player that is not a member of your roster, the team can field only 9 players. It matters not whether the sub is a member of the league or someone in the park taking a stroll.

The reason for being forced to play the field with only 9 when using a sub falls under the category of ‘roster control’. Think about this... you are playing a team that will have 2 of their weakest girls missing for the game. The manager decides to get 2 of the best female players in the league to sub for them. By doing this and being allowed to play with 10 in the field, the team would be stronger with the subs than they would be with their regular team. Not fair and you (opposing manager) could, and no doubt would, cry foul. Not to say it can't happen, but the chance that a team with subs being forced to play the field with 9 will be better than their regular team fielding 10 is very slim.

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